Doctor Who Discussion Thread

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Re: Doctor Who Discussion Thread

Post by ZeroJones » Sun Jun 18, 2017 7:16 am

Quite liked last night's episode, although the 'enemies pulling together at the end' plotline feels a bit reheated. Optimistic about next week's, myself; a potential Master vs. Missy face-off could be The Fun.

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Re: Doctor Who Discussion Thread

Post by SupaWaluigi » Sun Jun 18, 2017 8:58 am

Did not feel last night's episode was as strong as it could have been. Again it just felt a little all over the place. Plus, CROWS CAN gooseberry fool SPEAK?!
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Re: Doctor Who Discussion Thread

Post by Vtheyoshi » Sun Jun 18, 2017 10:07 am

I liked the running motif of the soldiers and eton mess all being kids, I thought that was fairly well realised throughout the episodes
the crows talking made me vomit in my mouth, my mother was also watching and she couldnt stop laughing when the crow started saying that girl's name
oh hey look everyone is gay and coloured
cool i guess?
The sexuality stuff was actually kind of funny ngl, as opposed to being annoying
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Re: Doctor Who Discussion Thread

Post by Robbo-92 » Sun Jun 18, 2017 8:00 pm

Not watched as much of this series as I'd planned but I did catch some of Saturday's episode, definitely didn't seem the same quality as the first few episodes I watched earlier on.

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Re: Doctor Who Discussion Thread

Post by imbusydoctorwho » Tue Jun 20, 2017 12:24 pm

It was alright episode, nothing really special, looking forward to seeing Sim back next week.
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Re: Doctor Who Discussion Thread

Post by Sonicka » Tue Jun 20, 2017 4:22 pm

Time for my two cent (after like... 10 weeks?) :D

To be honest, I've really enjoyed this series... up until about Episode 6 - until this point the stand-alones were mostly great and the beginning of the Monk Trilogy especially was quite exceptional - I think we all knew (and largely were disappointed) that it was Missy in the vault - but this does make narrative sense for this series. I still want to know how she escaped the Daleks in Series 9 - although in typical Moffat fashion I've come to realise that he did show us her escape without us seeing it... as ever.

But anyway, yeah the final 2 of the Monk Trilogy's were average... followed by Gatiss's Ice Warrior episode which was probably the better of his efforts (thank goodness the series is not going into his hands - he writes great drama, just not exceptional Doctor Who), and The Eaters of Light once again was average-good as well. But I can't help feeling that we've had better, especially from Series 8 and 9.

Moffat has said he wanted to leave after Series 9... and it shows.

I have however really enjoyed Bill and Nardole, they've been a refreshing and dynamic TARDIS change up. I will say they that they've need to stop digressing about Bill's sexual preferences every episode (like seriously, this isn't Doctor Who from 10 years ago - and even then!) - We live in a casual accepting age now so making this racial and orientational pointers every Saturday seems so unnecessary. Need some more Nardole backstory though - so would love them to ramp this up in the final episodes.

Lastly, I think the biggest missed opportunity of this Series has been Missy - after her revelation and circumstances of her being in the vault I feel SHE should have been the Doctor's companion this series - the dynamic and story for this would have been amazing, not to mention NEW. Instead we're just getting tantalising little scenes (which are best parts of each episode she appears in) of their evolving and changing dynamic - I want so much more of this! And it will make Missy's fall from grace (because COME ON - it will happen) more tragic next week.

What I do ponder though, is John Simm's Master's place. I don't think he will be real, and will be part of Missy's mindscape. Missy is going through a sort of rehabilitation under The Doctor's own programme... so I reckon he's gunna play the other side to Missy - The Master - A Devil on her Shoulder (as it were) - the madness - the sound of drums... to coax her back to the dark side.

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Re: Doctor Who Discussion Thread

Post by shy guy 64 » Sat Jun 24, 2017 6:37 pm

well there was something just a little creepy, although its a shame they revealed both the major reveals of this episode long in advance
also i hope this isnt building up to killing off bill, come on steven not again
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Re: Doctor Who Discussion Thread

Post by Aren142 » Sat Jun 24, 2017 6:57 pm

shy guy 64 wrote:
Sat Jun 24, 2017 6:37 pm
well there was something just a little creepy, although its a shame they revealed both the major reveals of this episode long in advance
also i hope this isnt building up to killing off bill, come on steven not again
Had they not spoiled us intentionally and made a big deal of it, this episode would have been amazing. Was still very good. Fangirling over John Simm is the appropriate reaction.
What do you mean not again? Moffatt is the king of copping out of killing characters. Especially main ones.
I wasn't even shocked by that reveal just because you know Moffatt will have a really dumb way to reverse it in the next episode. I WANT him to man up as his big leaving as showrunner thing and KILL SOMEONE
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Re: Doctor Who Discussion Thread

Post by weakboson » Sat Jun 24, 2017 7:42 pm

yeah it really felt a bit pointless when they'd already revealed that there would be cyber people and john simm. i didnt realise who the master was until missy met him which was nice. i was expecting him to be a phantasm of missy's id. and while moffat is terrible at killing off characters he is very good at writing out anyone who isn't a main team member. i think there are basically no characters introduced in this episode. zero. unless you count that surgeon guy and his nurse but the point is we're struggling. now I would like it if bil had been killed off early in the episode and her death had actually had an impact on subsequent events, but it was more than I dared to hope. I don't even think she's ded now, the doctor will probably be able to reverse a low-tech cyberman conversion or some eton mess like that. i think the first time one of the dr's frends got cyber converted it was actually pretty scary and it wasn't totally ruined by whatever eton mess there was about her willpower shining through and saving the day, idk iirc. in any case, since they seem to be retreading old ground theyd better come up with something at least as good.

anyway the premise was pretty good, the different time zones thing was a neat idea. I liked simm's character and the proto-cyber dudes were pretty tragic. it made zero sense for the blue guy to shot bill tho. i mean if the cybers had no interest in nonhumans then why did he care if they came upstairs ?? also i was expecting from the trailer an episode of missy shenanigans but they didn't even get to a different room before the doctor hopped out of the tardis and the premise of "experiemnt with missy on an adventure" came to an end. also while I accept that missy calling bill and nardole "exposition and comic releif" was a joke I think with this show's standard of writing it's hard to find it funny. all in all it seems she was an easier fit as an animal in a cage, but i suppose we have to wait until next week to really test that.

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Re: Doctor Who Discussion Thread

Post by shy guy 64 » Sat Jun 24, 2017 8:22 pm

Aren142 wrote:
Sat Jun 24, 2017 6:57 pm
What do you mean not again? Moffatt is the king of copping out of killing characters. Especially main ones.
I wasn't even shocked by that reveal just because you know Moffatt will have a really dumb way to reverse it in the next episode. I WANT him to man up as his big leaving as showrunner thing and KILL SOMEONE
well he killed them off in a way they got to live full lives before hand which is what he did with amy and clara in quite different ways i just rather it was something a bit more different this time
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Re: Doctor Who Discussion Thread

Post by Aren142 » Sat Jun 24, 2017 9:10 pm

shy guy 64 wrote:
Sat Jun 24, 2017 8:22 pm
well he killed them off in a way they got to live full lives before hand which is what he did with amy and clara in quite different ways i just rather it was something a bit more different this time
It's not really killing them off if they live full lives. Otherwise, unless a character is made canonically immortal then everyone gets killed off.
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Re: Doctor Who Discussion Thread

Post by SupaWaluigi » Sat Jun 24, 2017 9:27 pm

I thought this one was good, and the next part also looks promising, but again there was a slightly off feel to it all. Here's hoping the next final Capaldi Episode is great
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Re: Doctor Who Discussion Thread

Post by shy guy 64 » Sat Jun 24, 2017 9:30 pm

Aren142 wrote:
Sat Jun 24, 2017 9:10 pm
shy guy 64 wrote:
Sat Jun 24, 2017 8:22 pm
well he killed them off in a way they got to live full lives before hand which is what he did with amy and clara in quite different ways i just rather it was something a bit more different this time
It's not really killing them off if they live full lives. Otherwise, unless a character is made canonically immortal then everyone gets killed off.
well you're not wrong there nothing to do but wait and see and maybe guess
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Re: Doctor Who Discussion Thread

Post by GuitarHero » Sun Jun 25, 2017 12:26 pm

This was a fantastic episode I thought, some really chilling moments especially when you realise the nurse didn't give them painkillers but had just turned their volume down...

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Re: Doctor Who Discussion Thread

Post by Sonicka » Sun Jun 25, 2017 5:13 pm

Brilliant! This was even better than i hoped it would be.

This episode had so much going for it, high sci- fi concepts, Bill's sudden death... then the eventual conversion into one of the first Mondasian Cybermen was chilling - in fact seeing their origin in any case was nothing short of exciting and horrific - also a nice way to explain the cloth-looking Cyber's during 60's prop era of Doctor Who.

Watching Missy right from the off was a laugh a minute as well - as well as her teases of the Doctor's Real name - Moffat has really liked to poke fun around this a lot - especially the Doctor Who moniker.

Who else guessed Razor was the Master? I think I picked up on it quite quickly into the episode, I could never be quite sure because the prosthetics were very good. But there were moments when you could see Simm's eyes through the disguise... not to mention this exact type of disguise was a staple trait of Ainsleys version of The Master over the years so this was a welcome callback (and Simm even quotes it too) - not to mention you hear Series 3's Master theme make a resurgence in a few scenes thanks to Murray Gold. It think it just about made sense that Bill may have recognised him as Harold Saxon... although considering how old she would have been 7 years ago I'd say it's a stretch... but just about works.

And so... The Master really is there. But he's still obviously playing Devil advocate to Missy considering she's swaying to The Doctor's side... something Simm's Master would never adhere too (I mean - he let himself die without regeneration just to spite 10 after all) - so it's no wonder he concerned about what it too come in his future.

Strange that missy has forgotten about this escapade though... perhaps a mind wipe of some sort - or that time is being rewritten... but I'm guessing the latter will happen to The Master at the end - and it seems this is post The End of Time as well for him, so i wonder he'll ever mention his escape from the Timelord's before/after they got locked away in another universe.

... Oh, and that cold opening with an aged looking Capaldi!!

I think the only downfalls to the episode were the cold opening actually - it wasn't really needed. The regeneration tease has been done to death now, is it fake? Is it real? For Gods Sake. I almost don't care, we know it iS coming. If it's as violent as that makes it out to be though... then awesome.

The other issue I have is the spoilers. I think this episode would have been up there in terms of fan-gasming-exciting reveal levels like Series 3's Utopia if we DIDN'T know about The Master coming back, and the same with the Cybermen. These are two huge reveals that would have wiped the floor with me if the BBC managed to contain it well enough - but they let it out of the bag first, and it's shame.

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Re: Doctor Who Discussion Thread

Post by Aren142 » Sun Jun 25, 2017 7:13 pm

Sonicka wrote:
Sun Jun 25, 2017 5:13 pm
Strange that missy has forgotten about this escapade though... perhaps a mind wipe of some sort - or that time is being rewritten... but I'm guessing the latter will happen to The Master at the end
It's consistent with the multi Doctor stories in that the earlier incarnations always forget about their encounters with future selves. I forget why, but some crossing timelines business. It explains why the Doctor thought he'd killed everyone before he realised he saved everyone in Day of the Doctor.
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Re: Doctor Who Discussion Thread

Post by Sonicka » Sun Jun 25, 2017 7:43 pm

Aren142 wrote:
Sun Jun 25, 2017 7:13 pm
Sonicka wrote:
Sun Jun 25, 2017 5:13 pm
Strange that missy has forgotten about this escapade though... perhaps a mind wipe of some sort - or that time is being rewritten... but I'm guessing the latter will happen to The Master at the end
It's consistent with the multi Doctor stories in that the earlier incarnations always forget about their encounters with future selves. I forget why, but some crossing timelines business. It explains why the Doctor thought he'd killed everyone before he realised he saved everyone in Day of the Doctor.
I completely forgot about that detail! Good Call!

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Re: Doctor Who Discussion Thread

Post by Rik » Sun Jun 25, 2017 10:36 pm

Good ep, genuinely creepy hospital scenes at the start and they just about managed to salvage the Master reveal with his disguise. Just a shame him and the Mondasian Cybermen got leaked so early and forced their hand with the advertising, otherwise it really would have been spectacular. Wish they'd played a bit more with Missy being let loose for shenanigans, but the time zoning was a good concept which I hope they build on next week.
Sonicka wrote:
Sun Jun 25, 2017 5:13 pm
It think it just about made sense that Bill may have recognised him as Harold Saxon... although considering how old she would have been 7 years ago I'd say it's a stretch... but just about works

She would've been 11 at the youngest, doubting she'd remember Saxon is like saying you doubt any of this year's freshers remember Gordon Brown.
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Re: Doctor Who Discussion Thread

Post by imbusydoctorwho » Mon Jun 26, 2017 2:17 pm

Fantastic episode, certainly the strongest Moffat episode for a very long while. My only real problem with the episode was that we all knew Simm was coming back and how much of a shock would it had been if the trailers didn't reveal it.

Also props for making the Mondasian Cybermen actually scary, the whole hospital set up was great and sinister.
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Re: Doctor Who Discussion Thread

Post by Sonicka » Fri Jun 30, 2017 9:07 pm

Careful of spoilers out there guys.

There's gunner be one hell of a guest surprise at the end of the episode if the leaked photos I stumbled onto are anything to go by... this has been heavily rumoured for a good couple of months but... (click at your own risk)...
...it is real, David Bradley is reprising his role as William Hartnell... err, I mean The 1st Doctor! He's been spotted with Capaldi in costume whilst shooting for the Xmas Special this week - and both Tardis's have been parked together.

...I'm sooo excited for christmas!
On this plus. The Beeb didn't announce this in advance.

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Re: Doctor Who Discussion Thread

Post by shy guy 64 » Sat Jul 01, 2017 6:42 pm

well
quite a good episode i thought, im glad bill got a happy ending in a way and it doesnt fell like it undermines the tragedy of another episode like with clara, we all know that master isnt really dead im sure a new incarnation will turn up eventually, it would have been nice to actually see him regenerate into missy but at least the explained why he isnt like he was in end of time, little dissapoiting that rory was left out of the companion montage, and the rumors were true the first doctor is back its gonna be something i think i guess the christmas special is gonna be about him coming to terms with regenerating again helped along by his original self
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Re: Doctor Who Discussion Thread

Post by Aren142 » Sat Jul 01, 2017 8:48 pm

gooseberry fool called it. Just sighing endlessly, I mean, that closing scene plus the Master x Missy shenanigans were good. But... just urgh. The predictability of this eton mess is tiring.
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Re: Doctor Who Discussion Thread

Post by Rik » Sat Jul 01, 2017 9:08 pm

Aren142 wrote:
Sat Jul 01, 2017 8:48 pm
gooseberry fool called it. Just sighing endlessly, I mean, that closing scene plus the Master x Missy shenanigans were good. But... just urgh. The predictability of this eton mess is tiring.
At least this time the get-out clause had been set up in a previous episode. Plus it leaves the door open for Bill to return which I'm in favour of because tbh she's been the best companion for a while.
I enjoyed it tbh, in hindsight there are plotholes and dumbness all over the place but on the whole when I was watching it I thought it was great for the most part.
Don't think they made enough use of the Two Masters concept, was expecting Missy to go off with Simm to grab his TARDIS and then knock him out and bring it back to rescue everyone then some twist to turn her back to the bad side. Looking forward to the Christmas special though, hope it gives Capaldi a decent sendoff.
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Re: Doctor Who Discussion Thread

Post by GuitarHero » Sat Jul 01, 2017 9:44 pm

Really enjoyed that, even if some bits were predictable but still was gripping to watch. Excited for the Christmas special now, plus who the new Doctor will be as well considering I think Peter Capaldi has been my favourite Doctor - just a shame that he didn't have this consistently good stories until this series!

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Re: Doctor Who Discussion Thread

Post by Aren142 » Sun Jul 02, 2017 1:16 am

This has promptly reminded me that I don't actually remember more than a few seconds of the previous two Christmas specials. One had a superhero thing and the other had River, right? That's about it. This is actually a thing, I don't think I've seen a single Capaldi episode more than once. Think it's because of BBC Three not being a channel that endlessly repeats eton mess anymore.
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